Fillmore spurs lively debate at Silver Spring Advisory Board meeting (Update 4)
By Silver Springer • Oct 9th, 2007 • Category: Business and Economic Development, Government and Politics, Real Estate
There were some interesting questions raised at the Silver Spring Citizens Advisory board meeting Monday night. As County officials ended their presentation, board and audience members were at the edge of their seats with a flurry of questions for Live Nation and other parties involved.
During the Fillmore presentation by way of Power Point, it was noted that “a broad range of musical tastes that reflected the diversity of Silver Spring†would be shown at the venue. The list included rock, pop, jazz, country and salsa.
But Kathy Stevens, Secretary on the Advisory board questioned why Rap and Hip-Hop was left off the list, “was this intentionally left out†she asked?
According to Ted Mankin, representative of the D.C.- Live Nation branch in Northern Virginia, “There are not a lot of rap and hip-hop tours…they’re just not big money makersâ€
Stevens replied “while this was not her taste in music”, she has a relative in the industry, involved with talent that has told her the exact opposite.
Alan Bowser, Chair on the Advisory board Neighborhood Commitee questioned why the Fillmore wasn’t instead a Rams Head Live like in Baltimore, that facility has hosted sold out acts like The Roots, Common and India Arie. It currently has upcoming shows with Moe., Of Montreal, Blues Traveler and Boyz II Men.
Fran Rothstein, also on the advisory board asked the $8 million question; why does a large corporate entity such Live Nation need $8 million dollars in public tax payer money? “If Silver Spring is a rich area [due to the demographic make up] and as far as receipts to the operator; why is there a need for $8 million? I think Silver Spring has proven itself.â€
Live Nation and Lee Development, owner of the former JC Penny façade and the land around and under it argued that this is the first Fillmore facility to be built from scratch, other locations like in San Francisco, Miami and Philadelphia were existing structures that were rehabilitated.
“No operator is going to go in and build a venue from the ground up like that†according to Patrick Lacefield, County official.
Financial information of Live Nation was demanded by the board, they also wanted to know how much public money was contributed to other venues like Miami, Philadelphia and Denver. The Denver and Miami Facilities are both 3600 in capacity with the Philadelphia facility at 800 max. Silver Spring is planned to hold up to 2000 patrons. Mankin noted that Miami contributed a significant amount, although he could not present factual figures.Â
Board members questioned whether Silver Spring would ever see the $8 million since the Birchmere has moved plans to College Park and the funding bill has that operators name attached to it.
Lacefield proclaimed “We are wholly unconcerned with where the money is goingâ€. It was said that talks with Governor O’Malley and Senate President Miller have cleared things up.
Gary Stith Director of the Silver Spring Regional Center added that the $4 million check from the state has to be written to Montgomery County. “Montgomery County isn’t going to write over a check to Prince George’s.â€
Evan Glass, advisory board member said “Live Nation is seen as a mean corporate entity…what can you do or say to ensure us that you’re not going to create a cookie cutter venue?â€
Mankin replied that each operation across the nation was tailored to the specific needs of the community. The Silver Spring Birchmere would have community use and other forms of entertainment, noting that they have booked comedic acts like David Chappell.Â
Bruce Lee, Principal of Lee Development said that the music venue was part of a larger project, An unusual case where the public-use space came first. Subsequently an office and hotel component would come through down the line but Lee noted that the development group would tread cautiously due to past experience.
“On May 9th, 1987 we opened the Lee building…it sat vacant for three years, we’ve learned our lesson and we will never build a fully spec building again!â€
But on flip side, in the 80’s Silver Spring was in dire condition, a blighted central business district with an office vacancy above 35%, today the office vacancy hovers around 5%, one of the lowest in the D.C. area. No new product has been delivered in the revitalized downtown in the last three years .
Lee noted his optimism for the Fillmore deal and how it is helping the rest of the project. “As soon as the county executive announced the Fillmore deal we literally had the phone ringing non stop with prospective tenants…we wanted to build a hotel with 150 units but got a call from an operator asking if we could make it 200!â€
Asking questions considered taboo, Cassandra Ford on the advisory board asked the hypothetical “suppose that there is an act that we have a problem with…How can we take action?â€
Mankin replied that Live Nation operates venues that are profitable. Since the venues have been long running they don’t think that will be an issue “The market will decide what acts play.â€
Ford also asked “Will you be selling alcohol?â€, Mankin replied “Yes.â€
Deborah A. Linn, on the advisory booard added to the taboo, “This is what everybody is thinking but nobody wants to say; we don’t want 2,000 drunk people walking around Silver Spring causing trouble!â€
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Now I’m going to sound old - I’m all for limiting the rap and hip hop based on the demographics one sees in the downtown SS area.
Walking down town over the weekend and all of the kids and crowds of people - good lord. It’s absolute crap. Parents do you know where you kids are, what they’re wearing, and what their doing???
I’m still hoping for a little Bethesda of Arlington. Looks like a pipe dream.
Actually TDiddy, you will be accused of being racist. I agree with what you said, but others will see your comments as an opportunity to have the chips knocked off their shoulders (instead of acknowledging that what you said is true).
That’s funny since I’m mixed race PC. I go for the South Park/Sarah Silverman approach let’s not sugar coat downtown and call it what it really is.
The comment towards the kids - the rude behavior being exhibited from them crosses mutliple ethnicities.
I love it when I walk downtown and theres a cops holding down a kid and he’s screamin all kinds of profanity at his buddies across the street. Or walkin by Starbucks and having some asshole chase me all the way from Ben and Jerry’s for my number.
Attempting to create a desired demographic by imposing legal restrictions on what businesses can and can’t do…. I think you’re going to be accused of racism because that’s exactlly what that’s a description of.
Given the young and culturally diverse population of downtown (I’d bet there’s a decent handful of downtown residents who, i dunno, enjoy rap and hiphop?) I don’t there’s argument that ANYTHING should be limited as a part of the argeement with the county. Market forces should be all that limit anything.
Should Live Nation be required to pay the overtime for a half a dozen extra police officers in downtown on nights when there’s an event? Absolutely. But that should be the case for ANY event… because 2000 people in one place is ALWAYS going to be a tricky situation - whether that’s 2000 rap fans, rock fans, or anything else.
“the rude behavior being displayed crosses multiple ethnicities”
… But it apparently doesn’t cross taste in musical genre???
“I love it when I walk downtown and theres a cops holding down a kid and he’s screamin all kinds of profanity at his buddies across the street. Or walkin by Starbucks and having some asshole chase me all the way from Ben and Jerry’s for my number.”
This behavior isn’t limited to a) adolescents, b) Ellsworth Avenue, or c) fans of any specific musical genre. Not to mention bad dressers, unattended minors or suburbs that haven’t yet been gentrified and inflated financially to the point that they’re “a little Bethesda or Arlington.”
Acts are going to get booked based on Fillmore and Live Nation’s profit margins, not residents who place the blame for the downfall of society on kids who like rap.
“…suppose there is an act that we have a problem with”. It’s probably covered under freedom of speech, but if you petition Bush, he might have time to get rid of it.
I’ve been reading some of these comments in this post and the previous. What rock have some of you guys been hiding under? Rap and hip hop is not limited to just one ethnic group infact your little kids are probably one of the biggest consumer of that particular kind of music. Surely the rap and hip hop industry aren’t getting their profits from black people who live the day to day life of the lyrics, truth be told your kids are the one funding the industry. So take your head from under that rock and face reality. Rap and hip hop is not the evil do’er maybe your parenting skills is lacking if we are now finding fault in everything but the root of all issues.
I for one grew up on all music and because I had great parents I turned out very well,and oh my I’m also not narrow minded.
All music should be played, and majority of SS residents need to seriously relocate so we can bring this city back to life. Please for the love of god go to Bethesda or Arlington, I’m sure you’ll be more happy there
Thank you in advance.
70% of Hip-Hop is purchased by suburban white kids.
“But on flip side, in the 80’s Silver Spring was in dire condition, a blighted central business district with an office vacancy above 35%, today the office vacancy hovers around 5%, one of the lowest in the D.C. area. No new product has been delivered in the revitalized downtown in the last three years”
Great comment! You are bang on with your current vacancy rates in addition to it being 3 years since we have seen any new delivery of Class A office space in Downtown Silver Spring. So many from our community have contributed to getting us to where we are today and many are no longer here. I would like to add to your statement above and carry on if you approve. It involves a little time travel:
First, let me answer the question as to why there is no new office product as of 2005, 2006 and 2007. It is because of the high cost of construction and very high real estate prices. Simply, the projects are now not economically viable unless pre-leased. The office rents today in Downtown Silver Spring make it difficult for a new project to be economically viable. We know the state of the Condo/Residential market so let’s leave that issue alone.
Now for a quick time travel: imagine it is 1992 and we have 44, 100% vacant buildings in Downtown Silver Spring. In addition, property values have dropped 30 & 40%. Since 1989 through 1993 we have watched 300 good businesses leave downtown Silver Spring. For those of us who were here it was painful to watch. I was here. I was also the 1993 Charter President of the Greater Silver Spring Chamber of Commerce and the challenges we all faced were limitless. Our community did not give up!
Now let’s get back to 2007, or 15 to 18 years later depending on who’s memory: Our office vacancy rates are now better than Bethesda’s for the first time in Silver Spring’s history. Now ask, what had to be done to get here? How many of those vacant buildings had to be torn down or converted to new space other than office? As a community we fought hard to improve our Downtown. Without the support of County and State initiatives Downtown Silver Spring would not be the new Downtown it is today. Our challenges remain the same. We still need to do so much more. I encourage everyone who is interested in the ongoing revitalization of Downtown Silver Spring to park your car or bike and walk all of the Central Business District. I mean all of it. Once you have done this you will see how much more there is still left to be done. We have one huge CBD (Central Business District)!
Bruce H. Lee
President
Lee Development Group
I feel like I could go 100 different directions with whats already been said, but I’ll try to keep it as concise as possible.
I’m a 25 year old black male. I live in downtown SS now after graduating from college park a few years back. I grew up in the suburbs of NJ.
I love hiphop music, easily my favorite genre of music, and what I relate to the most. But I also like various kinds of rock music, jazz music and other forms of music. I’m 100% against limiting who and what can perform at the Fillmore. It’s one thing to say there aren’t “many” profitable hiphop tours. It’s another to say theres none. Previously mentioned were The Roots, who pretty much sell out or come close to selling out every show they do, across the country. Fillmore surely couldn’t complain about something like that. I’d just as much go to a Kanye West (who wouldn’t do such a small venue) as I would The Arcade Fire or Bloc Party or whoever.
As far as the people who frequent the ellsworth area, I could really care less what their racial makeup is or demeanor, or age, or whatever. My main concern is the proliferation of people just loitering. It’s plenty annoying to see children just hanging out aimlessly in downtown silver spring, and it’s just as annoying to go to Bethesda and be mobbed by unsupervised rude children at the movies on Wisconsin Ave. I live 4 minutes walking from the Majestic, and I’m at the point where I’d rather get in my car and drive to mazza gallerie just to not have to deal with people just crowding the streets aimlessly. Loud obnoxious children are a problem everywhere, no matter what they look like.
I agree with KS, I couldn’t have stated it much better myself.
Ted Mankin “mistakenly” failing to mention the fact that hip hop artists will be booked at the Fillmore is the ultimate case of pandering to me. Had I been at the meeting, I would have been heavily offended at such a blatant insult to my intelligence.
Reality is, the 9:30 club array of hip-hop acts that will likely be booked at the Fillmore (The Roots, Common, Talib Kweli, Little Brother) generally pull more of a white audience than the sort of stereotypical acts (50 Cent, Snoop Dogg) many of you seem to expect.
Don’t worry, downtown SS isn’t turning into SE DC anytime soon. Your purses and cars are safe.
If you want Bethesda, by all means, get in your car and head over there. SS is what it is: diverse, for better or for worse.
Everything is being developed for the adult in mind. Nothing is being developed for the youth. Not even new schools. All the space is being used up for condos and retail. No wonder the youth have nowhere to hang out except in downtown. Also, we all know that the young people like to hang out at malls. SS is one big open air mall.
70% of hip-hop music is purchased by white kids
the AFI theater gets subsidized and no one has called for limmitting the movies played there
AFI played ZOO, a docu. about a guy that had sex with a horse & died, without one comment in the blogs. But, take the lameist hip-hop act, which will probably sell out, and the blogs will be filled about how the venue doesn’t meet community standards. If there were more horses, with more say inside the beltway we would have less of a problem. WILLLLBBUURRRR!
Apparently there is a rumor that Madonna might sign a record deal with live nation. Well well SS will definitely win big with this deal if it’s true. Maybe the baby-boomers will take their head out their behind and actually enjoy how it feels to be human. I’m wondering if they all forgot how they used to be when they were young. Did the drugs/ and alcohol wipe out their memory?
Madonna who? Sorry, just lost my dinner.
Please keep hip hop and rap shows away from the Fillmore. We already have enough problems with the Majestic Theater and the kids who come into Silver Spring for that place. Sorry, but the fact is that with rap and hip hop shows you also get crime and the same kind of obnoxious anti-social behavior you see on Ellsworth every weekend night.
The self-righteous and willfully blind among you can cry “racism” all you want, but you’re full of it if you do.
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[...] contrary to Mr. Mankin’s views I guess rap is a “money maker” afterall, enough for Live Nation to sign Jay-Z and allow performance by The [...]